Assorted Alleged Proof Texts Concerning the Trinity

Our response to various ones regarding the trinity doctrine, or regarding the claim that Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah)

This posting consists of various comments being transferred from the Jesus and His God site related to endeavors to prove the trinity, or that Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah).

 

Jeffrey Trinidad on September 15th, 2011 at 12:32 am

The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#1:
Proverbs 30:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?
a. This verse really shows you the equality of the Father and the Son, what the Father did, so is the Son, because they are one God.
b. The question at the beginning is who has, which is singular in nature, but at the end of the verse, it is asking for the Father’s name and the name of his Son. Why is it like that? Because the Father and the Son are two persons but one God only, this also tells you that the Father and the Son have only one name, because by using “who has” instead of “who were” for the Father’s name and the Son’s name, it is implying that the Father and the Son have only one name, because they are only one God.

ResLight Reply:

There are two names referred to in Proverbs 30:4, not “only one name”.
“His name” = the name of the Father
“His son’s name” = the name of the son of the Father

There is nothing in Proverbs 30 that show that Yahweh and his son are equal, or that Yahweh and his son are “one God”.

See:
http://godandson.rlbible.com/?p=2145

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The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#2:
Luke 1:68 New King James Version (NKJV)
68 “ Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people.
a.Who is the Lord God of Israel? Answer: The Father
b.Who has visited and redeemed Israel? Answer: The Son
c.Who is the Lord God of Israel that has visited and redeemed his people? Is it the Father or the Son?
d.The Father and the Son are one God.

See:

Luke 1:68; 7:16 – God Visited His People

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Born Again Christian:
The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#11:
Revelation 21:5-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”
6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
Revelation 22:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
a.In Revelation 21:5-6, the Father is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.
b.In Revelations 22:12-13, the Son is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.
c.Who is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last? Is it the Father or the Son?
d.There cannot be two Alpha and Omega. The Father and the Son are one Alpha and Omega, because they are only one God.
e.The Father and the Son are one God.

RESLIGHT reply

The Alpha and Omega is a title that is applied only to the God and Father of Jesus. Jesus, however is the first and that last of the firstborn from the dead.

See:
Alpha and Omega, The First and the Last
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=325

Revelation 1:1,8 and the Unipersonal God
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1393

Revelation 1:17; 2:8 – The First and the Last
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=911

Revelation 1:8 – Is Yahweh or Jesus Being Quoted?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=66

Revelation 1:8 – The God of Jesus Speaks
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-01/

Revelation 21:6 – God Who Sits on the Throne
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-2/

Revelation 22:13 – I am Alpha and Omega
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-03/

Revelation 2:8 and the Alleged “Dual Nature” of Christ
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=154

=========================


The Father and the Son are one God, Alleged Proof#15:
Joel 3:11-12
New Living Translation (NLT)11 Come quickly, all you nations everywhere. Gather together in the valley.”And now, O LORD, call out your warriors!12 “Let the nations be called to arms. Let them march to the valley of Jehoshaphat.There I, the LORD, will sit to pronounce judgment on them all.
Matthew 25:31-32
New Living Translation (NLT)31 “But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
a.In Joel 3:11-12, it is Yahweh who will sit on his throne, and judge the nations.
b.In Matthew 25:31-32, it is the Son who will sit on his throne, and judge the nations.
c.Who will sit on his throne, and judge the nations? Is it the Father or the Son?
d.The Father and the Son are one God.

Yahweh comes to judge by means of the person he has ordained.

See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=2097

The Father and the Son are one God, Alleged Proof#16:
Nehemiah 9:6
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
6You alone are the LORD.
You made heaven, the highest heaven, with all its armies.
You made the earth and everything on it, the seas and everything in them.
You give life to them all, and the armies of heaven worship you.
Hebrews 1:8-13
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)8But God said about his Son,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter in your kingdom is a scepter for justice.9You have loved what is right and hated what is wrong. That is why God, your God,anointed you, rather than your companions, with the oil of joy.”10God also said,

“Lord, in the beginning you laid the foundation of the earth. With your own hands you made the heavens.11They will come to an end, but you will live forever.They will all wear out like clothes.12They will be taken off like a coat. You will change them like clothes.But you remain the same, and your life will never end.13But God never said to any of the angels,

“Sit in the highest position in heaven until I make your enemies your footstool.”
a.In Nehemiah 9:6, Yahweh is the only creator.
b.In Hebrews 1:10, the Son is the creator.
c.The Father and the Son are one Yahweh, because they are only one God.
d.The Father and the Son are one God.

Hebrews 1:10 relates that the present heavens and earth were made by the hands of Jesus; it does not state that Jesus is the Creator. Other scriptures show that the only true God created the present world — heavens and earth — through, by means of, His Son. This does not mean that Jesus and His God are both the one true God.
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=933
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=353
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=367
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1895

 

 The Father and the Son are one God, Alleged Proof#17:


Isaiah 8:13-15
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

13Remember that the LORD of Armies is holy. He is the one you should fearand the one you should be terrified of. 14He will be a place of safety for you.But he will be a rock that makes people trip and a stumbling block for both kingdoms of Israel.He will be a trap and a snare for those who live in Jerusalem.15Many will stumble. They will fall and be broken. They will be trapped and caught.

1 Peter 2:7-8
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)7This honor belongs to those who believe. But to those who don’t believe:

“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,8a stone that people trip over, a large rock that people find offensive.”The people tripped over the word because they refused to believe it. Therefore, this is how they ended up.
a.In Isaiah 8:13-15, Yahweh is the rock where people would stumble.

b.In 1 Peter 2:7-8, the Son is the rock where people would stumble.

c.Who is the rock where people would stumble? Is it the Father or the Son?

d.The Father and the Son are one God.

There is absolutely nothing in the verses about a triune God, nor do the comments given address what we have presented at:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1403
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1850
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1426

Ancient of Days

 

The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#23:
Daniel 7:9
New King James Version (NKJV) 9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire;
Daniel 7:13
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 “ I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
Daniel 7:22
New King James Version (NKJV)
22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
a.Who is the Ancient of Days?
b.Was He the one sitting on the throne of whom the Son of Man came or he is the one coming for the saints to possess the kingdom?
c.The Father and the Son are one God.

This has been responded to as part of the post:
Daniel 7:9,13,22 – Ancient of Days
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=2608

< strong>Regarding John 8:57-59 and “Eternal Father”

Born Again Christian on September 13th, 2011 at 8:33 am e

John 8:57-59 God’s Word Translation
57The Jews said to Jesus, “You’re not even fifty years old. How could you have seen Abraham?”
58Jesus told them, “I can guarantee this truth: Before Abraham was ever born, I am.”
59Then some of the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus. However, Jesus was concealed, and he left the temple courtyard.
Here the Son uses “before Abraham was ever born, I am” he didn’t say “before Abraham was ever born, I was”
if the Son uses I was, then he would have a beginning just like Abraham, but he uses I am, present tense, forever present, indicating that the Son did not have a beginning or would have an end, he is eternal.
Here is something to think about:
I had my firstborn when I was 29 years of age, that is when I became a father, so for 28 years, I cannot be called father, because I never had a child yet. Our Father in heaven is called the eternal Father, because he has an eternal Son. If the Son is not eternal, then there would be a point in eternity that he was not a Father, then how could you call him an eternal Father?

francis Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:01 am

Would suggest that you do a lookup and study of the pagan greek words from which “I am” has been translated.

1510 eimi (i-mee’); the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):

KJV– am, have been, X it is I, was. See also 1488, 1498, 1511, 2258, 2071, 2070, 2075, 2076, 2468, 5600, 5607. From Strong’s

1510 eimi – to be, to exist, to happen, to be present From Thayers

i have received Eternal Life from Our Father, Life without end, yet i had a beginning, and i am a brother of The Messiah!

Simply, “Our Father” is my GOD and Father as well as The GOD and Father of The Messiah!

The Messiah had and has a Father, HE WHO IS Our Father, therefore it is quite clear that The Messiah was “The Beginning of The Creation of GOD”!

“Let There Be Light” and “There was Light”!

LIGHT Begot Light!

The Messiah, “The Light of the world”, “The Beginning of the Creation of GOD”!

Father Help! and HE does…….

asimpleandspirituallife.org

http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Simple-and-Spiritual-Life/208339295850609

ResLight Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:35 am

Regarding John 8:58 and other scriptures in which Jesus used the phrase “ego eimi”, see:
Further comments regarding John 8:58 should be made in the comment sections of those studies.

francis Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:51 am

“The Messiah told them, “I can guarantee this Truth, before Abraham was ever born, I existed”!

The Messiah, “The Light of the world”!

The Messiah, “The beginning of The Creation of GOD”!

Father Help! and HE does…….

asimpleandspirituallife.org

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Jeffrey Trinidad:
The Son is one person having two natures, fully God and fully Man. In his deity, the Son is omniscient, he knows all things. In his humanity, he is just like us, he does not know everything.

This assumption would, in effect, mean that Jesus was, while in the days of his flesh, two different sentient beings: (1) a human being who was did not know all things (2) an Omniscient being who knew all things.

Jeffrey Trinidad: The Son in his deity is omniscient, he knows all things:
John 16:30
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.”

What the trinitarian has to do here is split the disciples’ sentence up; they would have to assume that Jesus’ being “from God” would apply only to his human being, while the would imagine and assume that his “know all things” would mean that he is the ominscient being.

See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=2118

Jeffrey Trinidad:John 21:17
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 He *said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus *said to him, “Tend My sheep.

See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=2121

Jeffrey Trinidad:The Son in his humanity is just like us, he does not know everything, he does not know the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom.
Matthew 24:36
New American Standard Bible (NASB)36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Now the question is this, did the Son in his deity does not know the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom? Answer: The Son in his deity do know the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom, because he is omniscient.
Acts 1:6-7
New American Standard Bible (NASB)6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;a.)If you pay attention to what the Son said on verse 7, he said “It is not for you to know the times or epochs” take note, he did not say “It is not for us to know the times or epochs”. This is a clear indication that he do know the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom by not including himself.

Of course, Jesus, since his resurrection, is no longer the human being a little lower than the angels, but had been exalted much higher than the angels. Jesus’ statement there only shows that since his exaltation that Jesus possibly did know of the times of seasons, something that he had known before. It does not mean that Jesus was in possession of two levels of sentiency at once.

See:
http://atonement.reslight.net/?p=1
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=218
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=215
http://atonement.reslight.net/?p=87

===================

 

omniscient = “having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.”

The Messiah testified, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, BUT MY FATHER ONLY.” (Matt 24:35-36)

And because “the church OF england” is trinitarian they did not translate 3 words that were in the pagan greek manuscript!

“nor The Son”

The NAS version correctly translated Matt 24:36 as:

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of Heaven, nor The Son, BUT THE FATHER ALONE”!

The Messiah’s own testimony reveals that He is not omniscient!

He gave up “the glory He had with the Father before the world began”, and became a willing sacrifice for my sin, so that i might have Life and have it more abundantly, for the abundant Life is of The Holy, Set Apart, Spirit!

The Messiah testified after Our Father raised Him from among the dead, “Touch Me and see, for A Spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have” and The Messiah was bodily taken up in the clouds.

Only A Spirit can be omnipresent!

Father Help! and HE does…….

asimpleandspirituallife.org

 

 

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ResLight on September 16th, 2011 at 10:35 am

Jeffrey Trinidad:
Did the Son ever say “we are the sons of God”? Did the bible ever say that the Son is “one of the sons of God”? If the Son was a created being just like us, how come you do not find those verses?

The questions suggest placing an imagined dogma upon the thought that would lead to imagining that since Jesus never used the expressions given, that this in some imagined way means that Jesus is God, always having existed from eternity past, etc. Jesus, of course, being God’s first and only Son (the only son directly brought forth from God Himself), is in a class by himself. This does not mean that Jesus was never brought forth, or that Jesus is his God, or that Jesus is a person of Yahweh, etc.

It might be helpful to study the presentation under the category:
Eternal
http://godandson.reslight.net/?cat=551

 

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ResLight on September 16th, 2011 at 11:20 am

Jeffrey Trinidad:
How can all things be through God, if God is only the Father?

Romans 11:32-36
New King James Version (NKJV)
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”[a]
35 “ Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”[b]
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=365#rom11-3

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ResLight on September 19th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

Born Again Christian:
The word “God” in the bible has a lot of meanings. Most of the time, it is singular and would refer to the person of the Father thus using singular pronouns, there are times that it is plural and would refer to the three persons, thus using plural pronouns, sometimes it could mean divine (God in nature), and there are times that is used in an expression with a figurative or symbolic meaning.

The word “God” in the plural is never, ever used to mean three persons.

This is branching out into many other scriptures that are already discussed elsewhere. See and make future replies regarding this respectively at:
Elohim – Does This Word Indicate a Plurality of Persons in a Godhead?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=230
Genesis 1:26 – Let Us and ELOHIM
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=402
Hebrews 1:8 – Why is Jesus called “Elohim” and “Theos”? Psalm 45:6,7
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=367
Genesis 1:1 – ELOHIM
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=274
The God (Supreme Being – The Might) of Jesus (Scriptures)
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=263
Genesis 1:26,27 – Who Is God speaking to?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=269
Psalm 82:6 – Who Are the Gods?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=245
Hebraic Usage of the Titles for “God”
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=19

====================

Was Jesus Unable to Sin?
Lee on June 16th, 2011 at 8:50 pm:

Was Jesus unable to sin? Was Jesus as righteous as God?

ResLight Reply:
June 16th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

Jesus was just like Adam before Adam sinned; Jesus could have obeyed or disobeyed his God. Jesus was just as righteous as his God as was Adam before Adam sinned. Adam, however, while he was incorrupt, he was not incorruptible, as his God is. In other words, Adam was incorrupt, but he was still corruptible, and he became corrupted when he listened to the voice of his wife, a creature, rather than to his Creator. Likewise, Jesus was born into this world, but he was not of this world; he was not born under the bondage of corruption, but he suffered as though under that bondage, so that he might pay the price of sin. Jesus was just as righteous as Adam was, and he was just as righteous as his God, except that he, and although incorrupt, was still corruptible, and needed to put on incorruption. Jesus, however, having been with his God and Father before becoming flesh, had much more preparation for obedience while in the days of flesh than Adam. By his obedience, the good news is that Jesus did bring life and incorruption to light. For more concerning this, see the following studies:

How God’s Son Condemned Sin the Flesh

The Seed of David

Jesus Died a Human Being – Raised a Spirit Being

 

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Jeffrey Trinidad Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:44 am

There are many who were called gods but there is only one God in nature. The Son is not one of those who were called gods, because his nature being God (Almighty, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Eternal and Holy by nature) is like the Father.

ResLight Reply:

There are “many gods” who are mighty by nature; there is only one God who the Might — the source of all might — by nature.   Jesus is not, by nature, the Almighty; he is not, by nature, omniscient. The only Most High, however, in giving to Jesus bodily the abundance needed of mightiness to meet the exaltation given to him, could mean that Jesus can be bodily present in more place than once; whatever Jesus has it is because the Only Most High has given such to him. See:

There is Only One True God
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1397

The Plenitude of Mightiness
http://defending.reslight.net/?p=22

The Fullness of Deity
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=369

The God (Supreme Being – The Might) of Jesus (Scriptures)
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=263

Did Jesus Really Say that the Father is the Only  True God?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=440

One God, One Lord
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=103

Jesus Knows All
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=825

Ephesians 1:21 – Far Above All Rule
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1052

Lord of All
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1049

Revelation 1:8 and the Unipersonal God
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1393

Revelation 1:8 – The God of Jesus Speaks
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-01/

Eternal:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?cat=551

Matthew 18:20; 28:20 – Jesus’ Presence With Us
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1902

 

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francis: “the Son was created by the Father is direct and clear.”

Most certainly!

The Messiah never said that He was god! Because He is not!

The testimonies reveal that The Messiah was “The Beginning of The Creation of GOD” and the He was “the firstborn of ALL Creation”!

And that The ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD “created all things by The Messiah”!

The Messiah never needed to testify that He was created for the scriptures bore witness to such!

“Let There Be Light”

AND:

“There was Light”!

The Messiah, “The Beginning of The Creation of GOD”!

Father Help! and HE does…….

asimpleandspirituallife.org

While I agree that Jesus was created, the “light” of Genesis 1:3 is part of the “world” that was created by means of the Logos. (John 1:10) God did not create the Logos by means of the Logos; such would be a self-contradiction.
See:
John 8:12- “I am” the Light
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1158
Light, Darkness and the Logos
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1436

====================

 

Jeffrey Trinidad:
The Son in his humanity, is body, soul and spirit.

There is no doubt in my mind that, when Jesus was in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), his human soul, like that of Adam’s (and all humans), consisted of the body made of dust and the spirit of life from God (John 6:57; Hebrews 10:5), and that when Jesus’ soul died, the spirit of life returned to God who gave it (the spirit of life all who die is now entrusted to Jesus, since all judgment has been given to Jesus — John 5:22}. — Genesis 2:7.

See:
Genesis 2:7 – A Living Soul
http://hereafter.reslight.net/archives/390.html

Hope of Life After Death Part 1 (What is the Soul?)
http://hereafter.reslight.net/?p-13

Hope of Life After Death Part 14 (John 11:25,26; Ecclesiastes 3:11; 12:7
http://hereafter.reslight.net/?p=70

1 Thessalonians 5:23 – The Spirit, Soul and Body of the Church
http://hereafter.reslight.net/?p=75

The Spirit – Does it Continue as a Consciousness When A Person is Dead?
http://hereafter.reslight.net/?p=12
Genesis 2:7 – Neshamah
http://hereafter.reslight.net/?p=16

 

 

Jeffrey Trinidad:
However, in his deity, the Son is a Spirit who is omnipresent, he can be in different, or in all places at one time.

Jesus, while in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), was a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2:9) — nothing more, nothing less. One could say that, while in the days of his flesh, Jesus’ possessed deity, a special might, as Moses did. (Exodus 7:1) Such deity, however, did not mean that Jesus could be in more than one place at once.

While in the days of his flesh, Jesus did not have the deity (theos – might) that “was” his before he became flesh. (John 1:1,14) Jesus took two steps down to become a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2:9) while he was in the days of his flesh. He did not retain his former glory as a spiritual, celestial being while he was in the days of his flesh, since we find in John 17:5, he was requesting his former glory. He would not have been requesting that former glory if he still possessed it.

See:
John 17:5 – Jesus’ Prehuman Glory
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=669

John 1:1-3 – The Logos was Theos
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=372

Was Jesus Divine as a Human?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1379

Of course, since his exaltation, he had been given the plenitutde (pleroma) of mightiness (theotes) bodily, in the glory of his celestial, spiritual body. (Colossians 2:9; 1 Corinthians 15:40) In that high exaltation, I am sure that God has given him the power to be in more than one place at once, although I would be reluctant say that he was omnipresent, which would imply that he would be forced to be present everywhere at all times.

See:

Isaiah 42:8 – Does God Share His Glory as Most High With Jesus?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1282

Colossians 2:9 – The Fullness of Deity
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=369

 

Jeffrey Trinidad:
The Son in his humanity, is body, soul and spirit:
Matthew 26:12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 For when she poured this perfume on My body, she did it to prepare Me for burial.

Toward the close of Jesus’ Ministry He came to Bethany, to the home of Lazarus, Martha and Mary — the same Lazarus whom He had awakened from the sleep of death. Mary chose this opportunity to pour some expensive perfumed oil upon the the Master’s head, which Jesus declared was in preparation for his burial.

Jesus was about lay down his sinless soul (Greek, transliterated psuche, Strong’s #5590) as a human (Matthew 20:28; John 10:11), which includes his body of flesh (Hebrews 10:10), suffering once for all as an offering for sin. (1 Peter 3:10; Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) It was indeed most appropriate that his body be prepared for burial in the manner stated, for it illustrated the expensive price that Jesus was about to pay for sin. — Psalm 49:7,8.

Once having sacrificed his flesh, and presenting it in heaven to his God and Father, Jesus did not take back that flesh. He is no longer in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), but is now a mighty spirit being endowed with a mightiness that much higher than that of the angels.

However, he was not both a mighty spirit being high above the angels and a human being a little lower than the angels while he was in the days of his flesh. He was, in the days of his flesh, a little lower than the angels; he did not possess the celestial, spiritual glory while he was in the days of his flesh.

See:
1 Peter 3:18 – Jesus Died a Human Being – Raised a Spirit Being
http://atonement.reslight.net/?p=1

Hebrews 2:9 – Is Jesus Still a Little Lower than the Angels?
http://atonement.reslight.net/?p=195

With What Kind of Body Will We Be Raised?
http://studies.reslight.net/?p=1

Jeffrey Trinidad:
Do you believed that the Father is master or Lord? Yes or No.

Yes, the God and Father of Jesus is Lord inherent in that He is the only Most High. Jesus is the Son of the Most High. — Genesis 14:22; Psalm 7:17; 83:18; 92:1; Luke 1:32; John 13:16.

If yes, are you serving the Father as master or Lord?

Yes. However, only through the one whom the Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has made lord over the us, Jesus. Jesus is the only “Lord” appointed over us by the only Most High, the Lord Yahweh. — John 14:6; Acts 2:36; 3:13; 4:12; Romans 1:8; 7:25; 2 Corinthians 3:4; Philippians 1:11; 2:11; 1 Peter 2:5; 4:11;

Do you believed that the Son is master or Lord? Yes or No.

Yes, the God and Father of Jesus, the Lord Yahweh, has made Jesus our Lord.

If yes, are you serving the Son as master or Lord?

Yes, as this the only way to come to the God and Father of Jesus, the Lord Yahweh. To serve the Lord Jesus as Master is to serve his God and Father as Master. They are not out of harmony with each other. One is not serving two opposing masters (Matthew 6:24; Luke 16:13) by serving the Lord Yahweh through the Lord Jesus.

There is nothing, however, in any of this that means we need to call upon our human imagination so as to assume and presume that Jesus is Yahweh, or imagine that Jesus is a person of Yahweh, etc.

See the studies under the category, “Lord”:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?cat=382

as well as “Lord of Lords”:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?cat=460

Born Again Christian: Are you sure about this? When did the Father make the Son, Lord?

Acts 2:36 WEB
“Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ [Anointed One], this Jesus whom you crucified.”

At some point in time the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, anointed Jesus, and made him both Lord and Christ.

Prophetically, the Messiah (Anointed One) says:

“Yahweh has anointed me.” — Isaiah 61:1.

The Psalmist says of the one anointed:

“God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.” — Psalm 45:7.

 

Jeffrey Trinidad,

Jeffrey Trinidad:
God is love, 1st John 4:8. In order for love to exists, there has to be a giver and a receiver. If God is only one person, like what you were saying, then God is not love, because love would not exist.

Jeffrey Trinidad:
God is love, 1st John 4:8. In order for love to exists, there has to be a giver and a receiver. If God is only one person, like what you were saying, then God is not love, because love would not exist.

“God” in the expression, “God is love” refers to one person. It is the unipersonal “God” that John speaks of, as in the expression “Son of God”, used in 1 John 3:8 and in the expression “spirit of God” in 1 John 4:2.

While the principle of love, like the principles of good and bad, simply exist outside of whether they are acted upon or not, I have no reason to think that when John wrote his words that he had any though of saying that since God is love, that this means that there had to someone for the unipersonal God to express love to from all eternity past. Such a thought has to presumed upon and added to what John wrote.

 

John 17:3 – The Only True God

Jeffrey Trinidad:
John 17:3 New King James Version
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
This verse was really misunderstood by all anti-Trinitarian religions, they say that the Son was telling the people that the Father is the only true God. Is it really? Let us examine the verse really closely:
a.If the Son is telling people that the only true God is the Father only, then why did he used the conjunction “and” and includes himself in the sentence?

Because no one can come to the only true God except through the Son of the only true God. Jesus excludes himself from being the only true God by saying that he was sent by the only true God.

Jeffrey Trinidad:
b.If the Son is telling the people that the only true God is the Father only, should he just end his sentence and put period right after true God?

Because one must not just know the only true God, but also the one sent by the only true God. Indeed, one cannot fully know the only true God except that they do so through the one who declared the only true unipersonal God. — John 1:18.

Jeffrey Trinidad:
c.The only true God that the Son wanted the people to know here in John 17:3, is the Father and himself. That is the reason why he uses the conjunction “and” and includes himself. That is also the reason why the Son did not end his sentence and put a period after true God. Think about it.

One needs think beyond what is being imagined and assumed on the verse and actually read what the verse says. Jesus is not the only true God who sent Jesus.

See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=440

 

Jeffrey Trinidad:
John 17:3 New King James Version
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
This verse was really misunderstood by all anti-Trinitarian religions, they say that the Son was telling the people that the Father is the only true God. Is it really? Let us examine the verse really closely:
a.If the Son is telling people that the only true God is the Father only, then why did he used the conjunction “and” and includes himself in the sentence?

The conjunction “and” does not say that Jesus is added to the being the only true God. Jesus is added to the whom we should know: we should know the Father, the only true God, and also we should know the one sent by the only true God. Yes, Jesus was most definitely identifying the One who had sent as the only true God.

Jeffrey Trinidad:
b.If the Son is telling the people that the only true God is the Father only, should he just end his sentence and put period right after true God?

No, since we are to know the only true God and also the one sent by the only true God. The one sent by the only true God declared the only true God who had sent him. — John 1:18.

It is only by knowing the one sent by the only true God that we can know the only true God. No one can come to the only true God except through the one sent by the only true God.– John 14:6.

Jeffrey Trinidad:
c.The only true God that the Son wanted the people to know here in John 17:3, is the Father and himself. That is the reason why he uses the conjunction “and” and includes himself. That is also the reason why the Son did not end his sentence and put a period after true God. Think about it.

In his prayer, Jesus addresses his “Father” (John 17:1):

“This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God.”

Yes, Jesus identified “you” — his Father to whom he is speaking — as the “only true God”, but it is not just that we need to know the only true God, and thus Jesus adds, “and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” “You” is the Father, the one whom Jesus has just identified as the “only true God”, and Jesus declares that he was sent by his Father, the only true God.

See:
John 17:3 – Did Jesus Really Say That the Father is the only true God?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=440

Yes, Jesus really did identify the one to whom he was praying as the only true God, and he identified himself as having been sent by the only true God, as did others. — John 6:29; 10:36; Acts 3:26 (“God” here is Yahweh [Jehovah], the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob — Acts 3:13; Exodus 3:14,15); Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:9,10.

=========================

Born Again Christian on September 14th, 2011 at 5:44 am

Did the Son ever say in the bible, “Our Father” or “Our God”? Show me some verses.

There is only one reason why God is called the “eternal Father”, because He has an eternal Son. Now, it looks like your leaning on the basis of creation. Let’s test this one, if God is called an eternal Father on the basis of creation, then there would still be a point in eternity that God was not a Father, that is before the creation, then He still cannot be called an eternal Father.

The Father begat the Son, not created. Just like you were begotten by your parents, not created. Begotten by God and created by God were two different things. Did the Son ever say that he was created by the Father? Give me some verses.

God is love, 1st John 4:8. In order for love to exists, there has to be a giver and a receiver. If God is only one person, like what you were saying, then God is not love, because love would not exist.

ResLight on September 14th, 2011 at 9:14 am

Likewise, the God of Jesus did not become “father” until his firstborn was brought forth into existence. Yahweh is the “eternal father” of the regenerated, and of Jesus, since Jesus was the firstborn from the dead. (Psalm 2:7 [Acts 13:33]; Romans 6:9; Colossians 1:18; Revelation 1:15,17,18; 2:8) The Hebrew and Greek words for “eternal” do not inherently mean that such had no beginning of its becoming eternal. — Exodus 40:15; Isaiah 60:15; Matthew 19:20.

ResLight on September 14th, 2011 at 9:26 am

Jesus did say: ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’ (John 20:17) The God of Jesus is also the God of the believer, not unless you would believe that Jesus has a different God than his followers.

See:
The God (Supreme Being – The Might) of Jesus (Scriptures)
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=263

ResLight on September 16th, 2011 at 9:38 am

Jeffrey Trinidad:
ResLight,

John 20:17 is not what I asked you, “my Father and your Father” and “my God and your God” is different from “our Father” and “our God”.

Why do you think the Son never said “Our Father” or “Our God”? Because the Son is exclusive, he may be our brother in his humanity, but in his deity, he is the only begotten Son of the Father, same essence and nature.

Jesus as the firstborn, and only-begotten directly of the Father, certainly enjoyed a relationship with his God (and the God of his followers) that no one else enjoyed. I cannot, however, say that this is why he never said “Our Father” or “Our God”, although he did say “Our Father” in his model prayer. The Scriptures certainly do not say that because he did not say “Our Father” or “Our God” that this means that Jesus is God Almighty, or that this means that Jesus is a person of God, the same sentient being as his God, etc. Such an idea has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into the absence of Jesus’ usage of “our God” and “our Father”.

In his deity, Jesus is brother to all the sons of the Most High, although his God has anointed him above his brothers, even over those who become joint-heirs with him. — Psalm 45:7; 82:6; Romans 8:17: Hebrews 1:9.

See
Who Are the Gods?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=245
Was Jesus Divine As a Human?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1379

See the category “Deity” for more studies related to Jesus’ deity:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?cat=4
http://godandson.reslight.net/?cat=4&paged=2

 

ResLight on September 14th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

While “begotten” and “created” are not exactly the same, when someone or something is brought forth into existence (begotten), it is still a form of creation. Even the reproductive process of living creatures on earth is often called procreation.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/procreation
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/beget

The forms of the words for “beget/begotten” in the Bible basically are used with the Hebrew meaning of to “bring forth”. They are never used to mean that one (or thing) begotten was not brought forth into existence. Any such thought would have to be added to and read into such usage.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/yalad.html
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/gennao.html
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/monogenes.html

“God” in Colossians 1 speaks of only one person, and the Son is excluded from being “God” in Colossians 1:15, since he is the image of the invisible unipersonal God; but he is included in the creation since the genitive usage of firstborn always includes the firstborn in the group of which the one the firstborn. As discussed “in the study, the group in Colossians 1:15 is “creation” — shown in verse sixteen to be related to living creation — visible and invisible, in heaven and one earth. As firstborn of that group, Jesus is also included in that group. The invisible God of Colossians 1:15. In Colossians 1:12,14, we have set before the Father, who is the only one being identified as “God”, performing his work “in” (Strong’s #1722, instrumental, by means of] his Son, thereby setting the context for the usage of this word, as well as the word “dia” (Strong’s 1223( in Colossians 1:16. The uniperaonal “God” performs his work through, by means of, his Son.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/en.html
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/dia.html

In all of Jesus’ words that Jesus spoke in the Bible, I don’t know that he would have had any reason to come right out and say “I am a creation of my God.” Such would be the default reasoning. The very fact the Bible reveals him as the firstborn (first to be brought forth) shows that he was a creation. The very fact of his being the Son of God designates him as the offspring of God, and thus as having a beginning. Indeed, Jesus used the argument (John 10:34,35) that if he is a god as the Son of God, that his being so would not be any more wrong than did the fact that the sons of the Most High are called “gods” (mighy ones) in Psalm 82:6. If God called the sons of the Most High ‘gods’, certainly the firstborn Son of God could be called “god” – mighty.
See:
Who Are the Gods?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=245

 

Born Again Christian: One of the uniqueness of God that separates him from his creation is his eternalness, he has no beginning or end. Now, if you’re saying that eternal does not inherently mean to have no beginning, then God would cease to be God, it would require for him to have a creator.

I certainly believe that the only true God (John 17:3), the God and Father of Jesus (Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3) is unique in His eternalness, being the only one without being brought forth in being. God does indeed have eternal past and eternal future. The fact that none of the words in either Hebrew or Greek that are translated as eternal, everlasting, etc., inherently mean to have no beginning has nothing at all to do with the fact that Creator had no beginning.

See the following studies:
Isaiah 57:15 – Examining the Hebrew Word ‘Ad
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=2040
Micah 5:2 – From Everlasting?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=923
Proverbs 8:22,23 – Proof that Jesus Existed For All Eternity Past?
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=2037

 

ResLight on September 19th, 2011 at 2:35 pm e

Born Again Christian:
The bible is clear that there is only one God, He cannot be added nor subtracted, He is always one and would always be one. Trinitarians do not used 1+1+1=3 because you are adding God, you are making Him three Gods. Trinitarians also do not used 1/3+1/3+1/3=1 because you are reducing God to 33 and 1/3% thus subtracting Him. Trinitarians however, used this formula, 1X1X1=1 or 1/1/1=1. Even if God is multiplied 3 times, He would still be 1 God, and even if He is divided 3 times, He would still be 1 God. This formula is sound and logical. Trinitarians believed that the Father is 1 God (fully 100%), the Son is 1 God (fully 100%), and the Holy Spirit is 1 God (fully 100%). The Father does not need the Son nor the Holy Spirit to be 1 God, because the Father is 100% fully God. The Son does needthe Father nor the Holy Spirit to be 1 God, because the Son is 100% fully God. The Holy Spirit does not need the Father nor the Son to be 1 God, because the Holy Spirit is 100% fully God.

Of course, anything of one multiplied by itself remains constant at one, no matter how many times on multiplies one by itself. One apple multiplied one apple (itself) a thousand times still remains constant at one apple. God can be multiplied by himself a thousand times, and yet remain constant at one God. What would a God multiplied by Himself a thousand times mean? Would mean that God is a 1,000 persons, each a separate and distinct person, yet all whom are the one omniscient God? This kind of reasoning has nothing at all do with the adding the trinity dogma to the Bible.

Jesus excluded himself from being the only true God by saying that he had been sent by the only true God. — John 17:3.
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=440

There is absolutely no reason at all to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that the Son is a person of God (of whom he is the son) who is 100% fully the only true God and the Holy Spirit is a person of God (to whom the Holy Spirit belongs) who also is 100% fully God, except that one wishes to sustain the added-on dogma that such assumption are designed to support.

 

PLEASE NOTE: Any replies placed in the comments form may be copied and replied to as a part of this posting, and the original comments may be deleted.

28 thoughts on “Assorted Alleged Proof Texts Concerning the Trinity”

  1. The Son is Almighty God.
    Whose wrath is the wrath of the Almighty God? Is it only the wrath of the Father or is it also of the Son?

    Job 21:20
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    20 Let his eyes see his destruction,
    And let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty.
    Revelation 19:15
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Psalm 2:10-12
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
    Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
    11 Serve the LORD with fear,
    And rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
    And you perish in the way,
    When His wrath is kindled but a little.
    Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
    Revelation 6:15-17
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
    a. If you pay attention to Revelation 6:16-17, the singular wrath of the Almighty God is the wrath of Him who sits on the throne and the wrath of the Lamb. On verse 17, shouldn’t it be “For the great day of their wraths have come” since it is referring to Him who sits on the throne and from the Lamb?
    b. The Son is Almighty God.

  2. The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#20:
    Genesis 2:2-3
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
    Mark 2:27-28
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
    a. The Son is also Lord of the Sabbath because he is the creator. Only the creator can be called the Lord of the Sabbath. The Father and the Son are one creator because they are only one God.

  3. The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#21:
    Isaiah 35:4-6
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    4 Say to those who are fearful-hearted,
    “ Be strong, do not fear!
    Behold, your God will come with vengeance,
    With the recompense of God;
    He will come and save you.”
    5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
    And the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
    6 Then the lame shall leap like a deer,
    And the tongue of the dumb sing.
    For waters shall burst forth in the wilderness,
    And streams in the desert.
    Matthew 11:2-5
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    2 And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples 3 and said to Him, “Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?”
    4 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: 5 The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
    a. Who is the God that came, who open the eyes of the blind, made the lame walk and made the deaf hear? Is it the Father or the Son?
    b. The Father and the Son are one God.

  4. The Son said, he is Almighty God.
    Revelation 1:7-8, 12-13, 17-18
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
    8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
    12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lamp stands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lamp stands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.
    17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

  5. The Son being raised as an spiritual being (according to you) would not make him omniscient, the only spiritual being who is omniscient is God.

  6. It is true that the Son never said “I am God” (because there is a reason), but you will find a lot of verses in the bible that says, that the Son is God. The reason why the Son never said that he is God, because of his humility, he set aside his deity (his equality with God) and took on the limitations of his humanity.
    Philippians 2:5-8
    Good News Translation (GNT)
    5 The attitude you should have is the one that Christ Jesus had:

    6 He always had the nature of God,
    but he did not think that by force he should try to remain[a] equal with God.
    7 Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had,
    and took the nature of a servant.
    He became like a human being
    and appeared in human likeness.
    8 He was humble and walked the path of obedience all the way to death—
    his death on the cross.

    I gave you the reason why the Son never said he is God. Now, give me your reason why the Son never said “I was created by the Father”. Give me your reason also why the bible never said “that the Son was created by the Father”.

  7. If the Son being the Wisdom of God had a beginning, then you are just saying that God did not have wisdom at some point in eternity.

  8. I am not surprised at all, why so many false religions cannot accept the dual nature of the Son. WITHOUT CONTROVERSY THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY! GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH (GOD AND MAN, DIVINE AND HUMAN).
    1 Timothy 3:16
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

    God was manifested in the flesh,
    Justified in the Spirit,
    Seen by angels,
    Preached among the Gentiles,
    Believed on in the world,
    Received up in glory.

    But for the true believers or saved people, this is not a mystery for them.
    Mark 4:11-12
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    11 And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, 12 so that

    ‘ Seeing they may see and not perceive,
    And hearing they may hear and not understand;
    Lest they should turn,
    And their sins be forgiven them.’”

  9. The Son is God and Man, Proof#3:
    Acts 3:15
    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
    15and you killed the source of life. But God brought him back to life, and we are witnesses to that.
    a. In his deity, he is the source of life.
    b. In his humanity, he was killed.

    1. Born Again Christian
      Submitted on 2011/09/27 at 1:35 am

      The Son is God and Man, Proof#3:
      Acts 3:15
      GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
      15and you killed the source of life. But God brought him back to life, and we are witnesses to that.
      a. In his deity, he is the source of life.
      b. In his humanity, he was killed.

      As this reads in the “God’s Word translation”, it has Peter stating that the Jews had killed the source of life. If “source of life” means God Almighty, then it would not be the human Jesus who was killed, but that the Jews had killed God Almighty Himself. One would have to reword the translation to read, “you killed the man the Jesus, but did not kill the source of life. However, the Greek word transliterated as Archegos (Strong’s #747) most literally means “chief leader”; Jesus is the chief leader of life, since he, by means of his obedience to God, brought life and incorruption to light. (1 Timothy 1:10) Because Jesus is the first human to be obedient even to death, he is indeed the chief leader of life; he is the first and the last of the firstborn from the dead, as he preeminence in all things.

      Nevertheless, as the one to whom God has given all things (Matthew 28:18; with the exception of being the Almighy Himself — 1 Corinthians 15:27), and because Jesus, by means of the ransom sacrifice, purchased all mankind, he could be considered the source of life, but not as the ultimate source of life. Even Jesus’ own resurrected life is from the only true God, who is the ultimate source of all life.– Romans 6:10; 2 Corinthians 13:4.

      There is nothing in any of these scriptures, however, that tell us of a triune God, or that Jesus is a member of such a God. In the context, “God” is identfied as being, not Jesus, but rather the One who raised Jesus up as the prophet like Moses and who raised Jesus from death (Acts 3:13-26; Exodus 3:14,15; Deuteronomy 18:15-19) He who spoke through Moses and all the prophets was not Jesus, but rather is identified in Hebrews 1:1,2 as one person, who is the Father of Jesus.

  10. The Son is God and Man, Proof#4:
    Mark 12:35-37
    New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
    35 While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “How is it that the teachers of the law say that the Christ is the son of David? 36David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
    “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
    until I put your enemies
    under your feet.”’
    37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”
    The large crowd listened to him with delight.
    a. In his deity, he is the Lord of David.
    b. In his humanity, he is the Son of David.

  11. The Son is God and Man, Proof#5:
    Revelation 1:10-18
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
    a. In his deity, he is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.
    b. In his humanity, he lives, died and alive forevermore.

  12. The Son is God and Man, Proof#6:
    Romans 1:1-4
    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
    1From Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle and appointed to spread the Good News of God. 2(God had already promised this Good News through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures. 3This Good News is about his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. In his human nature he was a descendant of David. 4In his spiritual, holy nature he was declared the Son of God. This was shown in a powerful way when he came back to life.
    a. In his deity, he was a spirit and holy by nature.
    b. In his humanity, he was a descendant of David.

  13. The Son is God and Man, Proof#7:
    Philippians 2:5-8
    New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
    5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    7 but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!
    a. In his deity, he is God in his very nature.
    b. In his humanity, he is found in appearance as a man.

  14. The Son is God and Man, Proof#8:
    Romans 9:5
    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
    5The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.
    a. In his deity, he is God over everything.
    b. In his humanity, he descended from their ancestry having human nature.

  15. The Son is God and Man, Proof#9:
    1 Corinthians 15:47
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
    a. In his deity, he is the Lord from heaven.
    b. In his humanity, he is the second Man.

  16. The Son is God and Man, Proof#10:
    1 Timothy 3:16
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
    God was manifested in the flesh,
    Justified in the Spirit,
    Seen by angels,
    Preached among the Gentiles,
    Believed on in the world,
    Received up in glory.
    a. In his deity, he is God.
    b. In his humanity, was manifested in the flesh.

  17. Born Again Christian:
    The Son is God and Man, Proof#1:
    Matthew 16:13-16
    New King James Version (NKJV)13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
    14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
    15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
    16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
    a.In his deity, he is the Son of God.
    b.In his humanity, he is the Son of Man.

    Jesus is most definitely not “the Living God” of whom he is the Son.

    See the study:
    Son of Man and Son of God
    http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=492

  18. Born Again Christian:
    The Son is God and Man, Proof#2:
    Revelation 22:16
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
    a.In his deity, he is the Root of David, because he created David.
    b.In his humanity, he is the Offspring of David, because he came from David’s lineage.

    Jesus, in his exaltation above the angels is indeed deity — a mighty one, who becomes the root of David in the regeneration — the life-giving spirit from heaven. Likewise, the only true Supreme Being created man through the Logos (John 1:10) when he “was” a mighty being (John 1:1), and could thus be considered the root of David in this sense also. This does not mean that Jesus was ever in possession of two levels of being at once, or that Jesus is the Supreme Being.

    See the study:
    Psalm 110:1 – The “Lord” of David
    http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1521

  19. The Son is God and Man, Proof#11:
    Acts 20:28
    King James Version (KJV)
    28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
    a. In his deity, he is God of his church.
    b. In his humanity, he hath purchased his church with his own blood.

  20. The Son is God and Man, Proof#12:
    1 John 3:16
    King James Version (KJV)
    16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
    a. In his deity, he is God who loved us.
    b. In his humanity, he laid down his life for us.

  21. The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#22:
    Isaiah 40:9-10
    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
    9Go up a high mountain, Zion.
    Tell the good news!
    Call out with a loud voice, Jerusalem.
    Tell the good news!
    Raise your voice without fear.
    Tell the cities of Judah:
    “Here is your God!”
    10The Almighty LORD is coming with power
    to rule with authority.
    His reward is with him,
    and the people he has won arrive ahead of him.
    Revelation 22:12-13
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
    a. In Isaiah 40:9-10, it is the Almighty Yahweh who is coming with his reward, to rule with authority.
    b. In Revelation 22:12-13, it is the Son who is coming with his reward.
    c. Who is coming with his reward? Is it the Father or the Son?
    d. The Father and the Son are one Almighty Yahweh.

  22. The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#24:
    Psalm 8:1-2
    Good News Translation (GNT)
    O LORD, our Lord,
    your greatness is seen in all the world!
    Your praise reaches up to the heavens;
    2 it is sung by children and babies.
    You are safe and secure from all your enemies;
    you stop anyone who opposes you.
    Matthew 21:14-16
    Good News Translation (GNT)
    14 The blind and the crippled came to him in the Temple, and he healed them.15 The chief priests and the teachers of the Law became angry when they saw the wonderful things he was doing and the children shouting in the Temple,
    Praise to David’s Son!16 So they asked Jesus,
    Do you hear what they are saying?

    Indeed I do, answered Jesus.
    Haven’t you ever read this scripture?
    You have trained children and babies to offer perfect praise.
    a. In Psalm 8:1-2, it is Yahweh who were praised by children.
    b. In Matthew 21:14-16, it is Jesus who were praised by children.
    c. Who is being praised by children? Yahweh or Jesus?
    d. The Father and the Son are one God.

  23. The Father and the Son are one God, Proof#25:
    Matthew 4:10
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
    Revelation 22:9
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”
    Colossians 3:24
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ.
    Hebrews 1:6
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
    “ Let all the angels of God worship Him.
    a. It is clear in the bible that we only worship God and we serve Him only.
    b. We serve the Son and can be worshipped.
    c. Obviously, God cannot contradict his word.
    d. If the Father and the Son are one God, then we are only worshipping and serving one God.

  24. @ ResLight:

    hi,

    Jesus or Yahushua(Yahweh save) is born at two times

    one time in eternity in heaven from YAHWEH and one another time on earth from Mary by the Spirit of YAHWEH

    MICAH 5:
    [2] But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    Proverbs 8
    The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
    [23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
    [24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
    Philippians 2
    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    [9] Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    [10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
    [11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    John 1
    [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Yahushuah is not a creature , He is a divine being begotten from YAHWEH in eternity past , who take upon himself your human flesh
    to save us from sin

    Romans 8
    [3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Blessings,
    Bernard

    1. Both the Hebrew word and the Greek word for “born” can also mean “to beget” or “to conceive”. I agree that Jesus was begotten (brought forth) before he became human, and also he was begotten in the womb of Mary. He was begotten (brought forth) a third time at his resurrection.

      (1) as the firstborn creature. — Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22-25.
      (2) of the holy spirit as a human. — Matthew 1:20.
      (3) from the dead when raised from the dead. — Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33; Colossians 1:18; Hebrews 1:5; 5:5.